HELP! Using ASUS RT-N66U With NVG589

Im sure someone else out there has this setup and has gotten it to work some way or another any documents on hand that can help is more than welcomed!

There is a lot of posting regarding xbox and Uverse. I pulled some of the info others have provided from various posts that I found helpful and tried to put it into one post.

In summary there are 3 solutions for multi-player gaming.

• Do nothing: the result will be NAT=Strict (reduced ability to multi-player)
• Port Forward/Firewall Pinholes: the result will be NAT=Moderate (better ability to multi-player…maybe as good at NAT-Open?)
• Install a UPnP router behind UVerse Gateway: the result will be NAT=Open (no issues)

I eventually used option 3, install a UPnP router, because none of the UVerse gateways are UPnP capable (this is by design and I agree with their design decision because it is well documented that UPnP is too susceptible to hacking). The main reason I went with option 3 is because we have an xbox 360 and xbox one. Port forwarding only works for one device at one time. You cannot assign the same open port to 2 different internal devices behind any router that does NAT. This is not a limitation of the 2Wire, it is a limitation of Network Address Translation. No router, either provided for you from the ISP nor a 3rd-party one you purchase, whether it's a $19.99 Buffalo Tech super special or a $5000.00 Cisco 2951 can get past this limitation. Because of the port forwarding limit of a single device I have an xbox 360 which is NAT-Moderate and an xbox one which is NAT-Strict (I can change the firewall settings so the xbox one is Moderate and the 360 is strict but you will never be able to get both as moderate). The only way to get both xbox’s as moderate is to pay AT&T to have a second external IP address OR set-up a second router behind the uverse gateway that is a UPnP capable router. (In my experience the only way to get NAT=Open is with UPnP) Getting another external IP is a recurring expense and frankly it is over my head so I went with the cheaper option of a UPnP router behind the gateway. This solution works for a single gaming machine or if you have several in your house.

**** WHAT IS NAT ****

Microsoft has introduced terminology that is displayed on the network settings of the xbox 360 and xbox one that describes the type of network access your xbox has. The terms are NAT-Strict; NAT-Moderate;NAT Open. My experience is that even with NAT-Strict you can use the XBOX live multiplayer functionality: “The XBox 360 is smart enough to compensate for moderate and strict NAT types if the majority of the other people who have joined the game are open NAT types.  Where problems occur is when multiple people in the game have moderate or strict NAT, then the gameplay won't work properly.  Thus, the preferred setup is to have an open NAT type, because this makes it such that your XBox 360 can join and stay connected to any game on the Internet, regardless of other people's NAT types.”

**** 1) DO NOTHING ****

You will get a NAT-Strict if you haven’t done any port forwarding.

**** 2) PORT FORWARDING ****

There appears to be some debate as to what ports you need to open but I’ve cut and pasted various options below. In my experience even if you’ve opened the proper ports the best I was able to achieve was NAT-Moderate. With NAT-Moderate my kids multiplayer matching capability seemed good enough that he didn’t notice or complain.

Some external references that might be helpful; when I was doing port forwarding I used somejoe7777 instructions which I copied below:

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/networking/network-ports-used-xbox-live

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/f/9/t/157383.aspx

from somejoe7777

OK, I don't have an XBox 360, so I can't test this, but I did a lot of research tonight on this issue because this has been an ongoing question/problem that has been posted several times on the forum.  Here are a few facts and my recommendation:

The reason that the XBox 360 is very particular about the NAT on the user's router is due to the way the XBox 360 connects to other users to play a game.  While the XBox Live servers are used to register and coordinate game play, the actual internet communication between XBox 360 consoles is peer-to-peer for several of the communication streams.

• Even though a lot of XBox 360 communication is initiated from inside the firewall (i.e. the connection is outbound, and therefore the port opens automatically), this is sometimes not enough for proper game play, because multiple other XBox 360's have to send packets back to yours on that open port.  Many routers will not allow a packet from just anyone on the Internet to come back in on that open port.  Many routers will specifically only allow packets coming back in from the same source port as the initial outbound packet was directed to (if your router restricts inbound packets like this, then the NAT type is labeled "moderate").  Some routers go further and will only allow packets coming back in from the same source port AND the same source IP address as the initial outbound packet was directed to (if your router restricts inbound packets like this, then the NAT type is labeled "strict").  If your router is not restricting inbound packets by source port or IP address, then the NAT type is labeled "open".
• The XBox 360 is smart enough to compensate for moderate and strict NAT types if the majority of the other people who have joined the game are open NAT types.  Where problems occur is when multiple people in the game have moderate or strict NAT, then the gameplay won't work properly.  Thus, the preferred setup is to have an open NAT type, because this makes it such that your XBox 360 can join and stay connected to any game on the Internet, regardless of other people's NAT types.
• For routers that support Universal Plug and Play (UPnP), the XBox 360 can direct the router to open ports such that the NAT type will be open.  However, as has been mentioned before:
• UPnP is a security nightmare, because there is no authentication, authorization, or logging for UPnP requests to the router.
• The routers that AT&T uses do not support UPnP anyway.
• Microsoft has some documentation in several places for how to open ports on your router if your router does not support UPnP.  Unfortunately, these directions are incorrect, and open far more ports than are necessary for proper operation.

Here is the proper method to open ports on the 2Wire routers for the XBox 360.  This should give you an open NAT.

 Open a web browser, browse to the URL of your U-Verse® Residential Gateway (usually http://192.168.1.254).

1. Click the Settings tab at the top.
2. Click the Firewall label in the second row of tabs.
3. Click the Applications, Pinholes, and DMZ label in the third row of tabs.
4. Click on your XBox 360 under section (1).  You will probably have to identify it by its IP address.
5. Click the Allow Individual Applications button under section (2).
6. Click Add a New User-Defined Application.
7. Type "XBox 360 Live" in the Application Profile Name field.
8. Select TCP for the protocol.
9. Type 3074 in the Port From and Port To fields.
10. Leave the Protocol Timeout field blank.
11. Leave the Map to Host Port field blank.
12. Do not select anything in the Application Type pull-down.
13. Click the Add to List button.
14. Select UDP for the protocol.
15. Type 3074 in the Port From and Port To fields.
16. Leave the Protocol Timeout field blank.
17. Leave the Map to Host Port field blank.
18. Do not select anything in the Application Type pull-down.
19. Click the Add to List button.
20. Select UDP for the protocol.
21. Type 88 in the Port From and Port To fields.
22. Leave the Protocol Timeout field blank.
23. Leave the Map to Host Port field blank.
24. Do not select anything in the Application Type pull-down.
25. Click the Add to List button.
26. Click the Back button.
27. Reselect your XBox 360 under section (1).  You will probably have to identify it by its IP address.
28. Click the Allow Individual Applications button under section (2).
29. Click "XBox 360 Live" in the Application list.
30. Click the Add button.  XBox 360 Live will now be listed in the Hosted Applications list.
31. Click the Save button at the bottom.

 This procedure opens only the necessary ports on your router (3074 TCP/UDP, and 88 UDP), and directs them to the XBox 360 only, not to the whole network.  Thus, the security implications are minimal.

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**** 3) UPnP Router ****

I purchased Netgear WNR2000v4 wireless router at BestBuy for $47.00. It is UPnP capable; there are fancier routers but I don’t need 5 GHz wireless or the newest protocols because I’m using the wired connections. The netgear router will be connected to the outside world through the uverse gateway and the xbox’s will see the outside world via the netgear router.

• Turn on Netgear router (do not plug it into the UVerse gateway).
• Using a cat 5e cable plug your laptop into one of the 4 orange ports. Open the Netgear configuration page by typing 192.168.1.1 With the page open you can now make the necessary changes to the settings.
• You need to reconfigure the Netgear LAN Port and the Netgear WAN Port (aka Internet port).
• For the Netgear LAN Port section I selected an IP address of 192.168.2.254 (this puts it on a different subnet from the Uverse gateway which is 192.168.1.254). In the LAN Port section I then selected a Subnet of 255.255.255.0. I then selected Use Router at DHCP Server (YES). This allows the netgear to handout internal IP addresses from the xxx.2.xxx range. For the DHCP range I selected 192.168.2.64 to 192.168.2.253.
• For the Netgear WAN Port section it asks about the Internet IP address. I selected “Get Dynamically from ISP”. What that means is when the Netgear is eventually connected to the UVerse gateway the UVerse gateway will give the netgear an IP address from within the UVerse DHCP range. I decided to populate the DNS server section of the Netgear WAN Port. I selected the google DNS servers of 8.8.8.8 for the primary and 8.8.4.4 for the secondary.
• Because I’m connecting my two xbox’s with cat5e I decided to turn off the Netgear Wifi radio in the netgear settings. I turned it off because I don’t want any computers or phones hooking up to the router with UPnP (I’m truly treating this as gaming only router).
• Turn on the UPnP functionality on the Netgear router from the advanced settings tab.
• Change the login password on the router (this is the router password not the wireless radio password). You never want to leave a router with the default of “password”.
• Some would consider this optional but I noticed that netgear has a more current version of the firmware for the router so I decided to update the router firmware at this point.
• The netgear router is now configured properly. Next step is to test the router before connecting it to the Uverse gateway.
• Turn off the netgear router. I disconnected my laptop from the orange LAN ports on the back of the netgear. I turned on the netgear and then reconnected the laptop into the orange port on the back of the netgear. I turned off the wifi on my laptop because I didn’t want the laptop connecting to the Uverse gateway via wireless. I opened a windows command prompt on the laptop and typed the following: ipconfig /release, waited a few seconds and then typed ipconfig /renew (you can accomplish the same thing by turning off the laptop and turning it back on). By typing release and renew I force my laptop to get a new IP address from the only connection it has…the Netgear router. I type ipconfig at the windows command prompt and it tells me that my laptop is connected to 192.168.2.64 (this tells me that the Netgear DHCP server is working correctly and has put me on the xxx.2.xxx network. Because we changed the LAN port settings of the Netgear to 192.168.2.254 in order to bring up the Netgear config page I need to type 192.168.2.254 (it was 192.168.1.1).
• You will notice the Netgear config page says you are not connected to the internet; that is good because it isn’t hooked up to the Uverse router yet. The Netgear router tested out properly so unplug the laptop from the Netgear and unplug the Netgear power cord. (When you turn your laptop off and back on once you turn the wifi back on the laptop it should connect to the Uverse Gateway via a 192.168.1.xxx IP address).

The next step will be to set the UVerse router so it can work with the Netgear router. In my case I have the Motorola NGV589 so my steps were as follows:

• From a computer connected to the Uverse gateway type 192.168.1.254 to bring up the Motorola config page.
• Goto the firewall tab and select IP passthrough. Set the allocation mode to “Passthrough” and Passthrough mode to “DHCPS-dynamic”. Once the Uverse gateway has saved the settings (which takes two minutes because the Uverse gateway rebooted twice upon saving) you should be able to connect the Netgear router.
• Plug the Netgear router into the UVERSE gateway by using a cat5e cable to connect the yellow internet port of the Netgear router to a UVerse gateway port 1,2,3, or 4). By plugging in the yellow port (aka WAN) port the Uverse gateway will hand out an IP address of 192.168.1.xxx to the internet port of the Netgear router.
• From the Uverse device list you should see an entry for WRN2000v4 which is the name for the netgear router (in my case the IP address it handed out was 192.168.1.135).
• To confirm the Netgear router is connected to the internet through the UVerse gateway plug your laptop into one of the 4 orange LAN ports on the back of the Netgear. Type 192.168.2.254 to bring up the netgear config page.   The config page should read “Good” for internet connection. You should be able to surf the internet from your laptop (you may have to turn off the wifi radio in your laptop and do the ipconfig /release & ipconfig/renew to get onto the 192.168.2.xxx subnet before you can surf the internet or see the netgear config page).

Plug your two xbox’s into one of the orange ports on the netgear and run the network configuration on the xbox. The xbox should now show a NAT-OPEN. Do the same for the second xbox and it should also show NAT-OPEN. My first xbox received an IP of 192.168.2.64 and the second xbox received an IP of 192.168.2.65 (both from the LAN port of the Netgear).

For a one time fee of $47.00 you are able to hook up multiple xboxs using UPnP and still use the UVerse gateway for non-gaming connections.

I reposted in your thread a post I put on the forum back in January.  The fact that I used a netgear and you have a Asus should make no difference.  Back in January I was able to get NAT-Open but I had to get a new gateway and I think it says NAT-Strict now (my son plays xbox and it still works so I haven't bothered to check into it).  If you need more wired connections use a cat5e switch and connect it to the asus.  If you are going to use the asus exclusively for wireless I would then turn off the wireless on the NVG589 so the two wireless signals don't compete.  If you wanted two wireless networks make sure you have the NVG 589 set on channel 1 and the asus set on channel 11

with the 3 tv receivers connect them to the NVG589 and all other devices to the asus or the switch tied to the asus.  Not going to get into the details (much better posts with specifics) but you want to avoid IP flooding so to be safe keep your TV's on the NVG589 and all other wired on the asus.  (wireless can be on the 589 is you want...unless you've turned it off)

Thank you I have all tv recievers going on the UVerse gateway the WAP for the two wifi recievers and the main console thats cat5e into the uverse gateway ten lan port one goes to my wan port on the asus and it has lan ports for xboxs and handles the wireless connection at 5ghz for iphones and computers and second xbox.

I have turned the att gateway wireless off so we dont run into interference. Thanks any information helps!

So since we have two xboxs port forwarding would just screw the seconds guys xbox from getting a moderate nat ? Our router does suport upnp I believe I will try these new things as soon as I get home and give an update!

This is exactly the type of information I need! Its should be stickied to the att troubleshooting page so people know why the uverse equipment is the way it is and whats going on with gaming.

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@Cmeachum91 wrote:

So since we have two xboxs port forwarding would just screw the seconds guys xbox from getting a moderate nat ? Our router does suport upnp I believe I will try these new things as soon as I get home and give an update!

This is exactly the type of information I need! Its should be stickied to the att troubleshooting page so people know why the uverse equipment is the way it is and whats going on with gaming.

 

 

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You cannot port-forward the same port/range of ports to two different devices behind a NAT router.  Thus, you cannot handle two different XBOXen behind a single router via port forwarding.  Your only solution for this is to turn UPnP on in your router.